17# From Business Failures to a Thriving Six-Figure Plus Jewellery Brand – A Conversation with Ramona, Founder of Rani & Co

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etal perceptions of women. In: 2020

Oh wow, what an intro! Thank you. Oh, that, it's just honestly so amazing to have you here, Ramona, because Oh, thank

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And I just, I think I was just really taken back by your story, you know, your sexual assault story and you as an Asian woman, like being really open and honest and vulnerable about that because so many people don't. So let's, let's go back to the beginning then. So how was like growing up for you?

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I had, yeah, it was honestly, it was amazing. I went to a good school. Went to university, had a great education, went to school where they had all the sports, all the extracurricular activities. So I was in like all my sport teams. I was always, always busy. I had a great upbringing, but I do remember that I was very anxious when I was younger and I really didn't enjoy school.

Like I really did not enjoy it. Yeah. The teachers weren't very nice to me and my sister.

but apart from that. Honestly, like, no complaints. I've been very, very lucky and I'm aware of how lucky I am.

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But, I was, me and my sister were so quiet at school, we never put our hand up in class or anything, but still did well, turned out

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There's one in childhood, which I've been open about. There was another experience when I think I was around 18. I haven't spoken about that online and to be honest, I don't think I ever will. Just because for me, I was in a really bad place and it involves people I don't really want to get involved with again.

So I think I just want to leave that in the past. but the experience I had when I was around 7 years old, I've been very open about that. But it was really interesting because, so, for those who don't know what happened, basically, I went to a fun fair with my friends, and one of the mums came with us, and my friends went on a ride.

I don't like rides, so I just took all their belongings and I stood next to the mum and was just watching them on this ride. And then I felt someone touch me from behind. And I was like, this is weird. And it was like, it was like a groping sensation. And I was petrified. Like my body just froze and I was too scared to turn around.

But by the time I did turn around, there was no one there. And the rest of the day I was just silent. I didn't understand what had happened, but I knew it was wrong. and then my mom came and picked me up. She's like, how was your day? And I was like, yeah, fine. And then I was just, I was just silent the rest of the day, but what's really interesting is that I actually forgot that happened.

for like 17 years or something. It was only when my friend told me that she's going to therapy for A sexual assault experience she had when she was really young. And what triggered her memory was the whole Harvey Weinstein thing coming out in the news. And then when she told me that, it triggered my memory of what happened.

And then a few years later, it triggered another memory of what happened to me when I was 18 years old. And then I went to therapy for that. Because I knew what happened was wrong, but I didn't understand it. So I told the therapist, like, this is what happened. Then they said to me, they explained, this is what's happened, and I was like, no, that doesn't happen to people like me, I'm just a normal person.

She's like, no, if your friends, if you, if your friends said to you you know, they had the same experience as you, would you say that this is this, this sexual assault experience? I was like, yeah, I would actually. She's like, that's what's happened to you, call it what you want, that's what's happened to you.

so I think it took me a while to process what happened when I was 18 years old and even now I'm still like processing it. yeah, when I, what, what happened when I was younger, it's, it's sad, but it happens to so many children, girls and boys. And I actually think fanfares have a very common place for that to happen.

So every time I see a fanfare, I get a bit like, oh, I don't like it. Yeah,

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It was and like it's just fine You know people just do that but obviously it was never

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For girls and they're sexualized from such a young age and I actually thought to myself Well, if I get good grades, maybe I'll get respect and I've got good grades and you still get treated like trash or like an object And I was like, oh, this is actually how society views women. This is really rubbish And yeah, it's just it's it's so frustrating It doesn't matter what you've accomplished as a woman like you're just not valued

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Diddy stuff is completely I mean, it doesn't even surprise me. No, I'm just, like, not even, I'm not even shocked, but it's, like, over the years, like, whether it's been Harvey Weinstein, Jeffrey Epstein, now P. Diddy R. Kelly! R. Kelly! Yeah. And it's just these men in positions of power abusing it, and I just think You know, it's just, it's just so sad, like, even more recently, like, Hugh Edwards, honestly, I was just so shocked about that.

Yeah. I just thought, oh my god, like, he's such a great presenter, but it is just, it's just, unfortunately, it goes on, it's just so sad. So, in terms of, like, overcoming it, and you've been, like, really open about it, do you feel like, In terms of, like, opening up, did you find it easy to open up, because obviously you're an Asian woman, or did you find it quite difficult?

Oh,

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So you should always ask someone like, why do you have those beliefs? but yeah, like I would get made fun of a lot for saying I'm a feminist, which I found especially by guys. and yeah, so I'll say easy, easy and hard. But I think actually one of the more difficult conversations. So they start at home.

I think telling my parents was probably quite difficult for a long time. They, they, they just didn't understand why I was such a feminist. And then there was one, it's always Christmas. Christmas is when all the arguments happen. And one Christmas, like, I just had an argument with my mom in front of the family.

And I was like, maybe you should ask why I have these values. And then the next day my mom actually came and sat down next to me. She's like, tell me why you have these values. And I told her what happened to me when I was like 18. She had no idea. And she was like, oh, but it's so nice because now she actually stands up for me.

Mm hmm. And, she'll be like, you know, my daughter has like this feminist jewelry brand. And like, she gets it now. But all you have to do is have that difficult conversation with someone. Be like, why do you have these values? And it's most likely that they have been through some sort of experience.

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I think also with Asian parents it can be so, I don't know what your parents are like but, my parents were so strict whilst I was growing up. Really? Mm, and now it's like the complete opposite. Yeah. Thanks. Like, I mean, she always obviously loved me, but now she just, anything I say, she like really agrees with me literally on everything.

Okay. Yeah. Literally my mom is like my best, best supporter. But as, as we were growing up, obviously I grew up in a really strict Punjabi Sikh family. And like, it was honestly like. It was so, so strict, so restricting, so I think that's why I kind of became a feminist as well, because of like, being restricted at a young age, and I think it's not easy growing up in an Asian culture.

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And it gets to a point where it's actually, it was at university I really started challenging what I was taught growing up. Yeah. And I was like, oh, actually, I have very different beliefs to what my parents have and my family has. And then you kind of come into your own person, you unlearn all these stereotypes.

I still find myself getting, like, saying un feminist y things sometimes. Like, why are you a Ramona? I can't believe you just said that. But I'm like, okay, still got some things to unlearn. Like, I was at the gym recently, and I moved all this heavy equipment to put, because I was doing, some exercise. And it took me like five minutes to get it all set up.

And this man comes, and he's like, I want to use the machine, can you move your stuff? And I was like, yeah, yeah, sure, sorry, I'll move it. Then afterwards, I was like, why was I so accommodating to him? But we've been raised to be accommodating to other people and I was so annoyed at myself after. I was like, why did I just do that?

I was like, okay, we've still got some things to unlearn. Yeah. So, yeah. That's so true. And

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tle bit what happened between: 2017

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and I wanted to create something that actually really remembers feminists like Frida Kahlo, Ruth Bader Ginsburg, people who really, or women who really like, like fought for our rights and spoke up. And, that's what I wanted to create. So I had slogan talks with, God, I don't even remember now, like a Maya Angelou quote, for example.

And, I was also sending bits of wholesale jewelry on the side. Like, none of it made sense. I was just very confused. And I also, I hated being in a nine to five and I was like, I really just, I want to have my own thing and just be in control of my time.so yeah, the first three years, the business was not growing.

Like it was just either making a loss or breaking even. It was a mess. And then I was talking to a friend at the time and he was like, you need to become a jewelry brand because The figures aren't making sense, the jewellery's selling more and it's more profitable. And I was like, nope, we're gonna be a clothing brand, like, that's why I started this, like, that's the mission.

It has all the feminist stuff on it. And then it got to a point where I was like, actually, I really believe in the brand values. This business is not working, it has to change. And there's this quote, not quote, sorry, on Dragon's Den in the most recent series. Emma was on it. And, on one, on the panel, sorry, and she said a sign of a good entrepreneur is someone who can pivot, and she's so right, and I, it took me a few months to get there, I was very stubborn, but I was like, okay, this isn't working out.

We're going to become a jewelry brand. And I was like, okay, how can we put the feminist message into the jewelry? And also that's something that's not been so done before. So I did have a feminist collection at one point with like Gloria Steinem and Frida Kahlo, Ruth Bader Ginsburg. That's incredible feminists.

ny brands that have that. So,: 2020

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Because I remember I had the same thing with my wedding planning business. I used to have a wedding planning business for my coaching business. And it was doing so well. Honestly, I closed it just before it hit like six figures for a wedding planning business. That was, I was doing like weddings in like Italy, like being flown to like Lake Como.

Honestly, at my height of like my career, I was just like, you know what? I just, and my coaching business was growing so much as well, but I just knew like coaching was like a mentoring was my calling. And I remember like, I think I like cried so much when I had to shut down my wedding planning business.

That's a really hard thing

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And it wasn't financially, it wasn't working for me. It was more, it was more that I just loved coaching and mentoring. And sometimes you have to make those tough decisions.

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So I really feel for anyone going through the same thing, but I think what got me through that is having a really clear vision of the brand values. and also just, you have to believe in yourself.That's really what kept me going, like it took me, God, for the first three years, I was just working constantly, I would carry my laptop around with me everywhere, so lunch breaks at work, I would be on my laptop talking to suppliers, as soon as I got home after the gym.

be talking to suppliers in the morning. I'll be doing work as well before work and weekends I'll just be working. But it's like those three years of constant work got me to where I am now. And I'm not saying you have to sacrifice everything because I really enjoy it. So for me, it wasn't a sacrifice.

There are some things you do have to sacrifice, but I think you have to believe in. Your, you have to believe in your business. If you don't believe in your business, it's not going to work. And I also think, I've had to really shift my mindset around money. I think investing in business, you have to invest a lot, like things cost a lot.

Like last month in September for Christmas, I spent 30, 000 just on stock and like just loads of stuff. And I was like, well, this is a lot of money. And sometimes I do get a bit nervous about spending a lot, also because last year I nearly lost my business because of overspending. So that's like a whole other thing we could talk about.

But, yeah, so I think I've had to change my mind, mindset around money. And I actually just do affirmations to help me with that in the morning. I could always say to myself, I have an abundance of money flowing my way.and also you, when you grow your business or work on your business, you have to see your growth.

You can be, you have to be a little bit delusional, but you have to be seeing growth at the same time. and as long as you're seeing growth, I'm like, okay, there's money coming in. The cashflow is okay. So. Yeah, like you're gonna have these kind of blockages of mine was money and you had to figure out a way to work around it.

What was your specific money blocks? Do you think it was overspending? It was more like Oh, it can never happen to me. I can never, you know, have a Like a good salary and stuff like that, because before my business, I was in five different jobs, hated all of them, couldn't stay at any of them for even a year, thought there was something wrong with me, all minimum wage, I only actually started paying myself a proper salary this year when I was 31 years old.

And it's taken me a really long time to get there, but because I wasn't a minimum wage for such a long time, I was just like, oh, it just felt so out of reach. And I was looking around at my friends, I'm like, how come they're on like 60 I doing wrong? But it just finally got there. I literally feel like I can just breathe a little bit.

much of my money. Yeah. So in: 2022

and on the contract it said, if any jewellery I receive is faulty, I can send it back and they have to repair it, like, free of charge. And they're like, yeah, fine, fine, they signed the contract. They sent me a shipment, half of it was faulty. This was like my Christmas stock, and I spent like 30 grand, because I was like, this is going to be the best Black Friday ever.

Got the stock, half of it was faulty, I messaged them, sent them pictures, literally stones were missing and like broken in half. They're like, we can't see the problem. I was like, are you all right? Oh my god. And they were like, we're not taking this back. And I was like, well then I'm not giving you any more of my money.

Because I've already given a deposit for some of the Christmas order and I was like, I'm not giving you any more, give me my deposit back. Because it also sent me pictures of some of the jewelry they were making for Christmas and it looked so bad. The

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What they were doing, I actually met them twice in London, face to face. And they sent, they showed me physical samples, they looked amazing. What they were doing is getting a really great factory to make the samples. When they got clients on board, they were using a really crappy little factory in India to make everyone else's jewellery, so they were profiting off it as well.

they weren't a manufacturer. They also contacted two other female owned small jewellery businesses in the UK, promised them the world. And completely screwed them over as well. And I'm so lucky that they actually messaged me about it. They're like, oh, I see you talking about manufacturers. Is it this one, by the way?

made a loss that year. So in: 2023

It was awful. So beginning of: 2023

That was the least of my worries. And last year I basically had to work to getting my business back to like the original six figures that it was.whilst having panic attacks every week and not going out because of agoraphobia, and seeing loved ones go through chemo and seeing their body change. It was so I don't know how I got through it, but I knew I was going to get through it, because I always say humans are so resilient, but yeah, we've got lawyers involved, we've got the police involved in India, but the problem with India is that you can pay the police to be quiet.

Yes. They, they definitely paid the police to be quiet. They have money because they're literally going around scamming businesses and they're flying business class everywhere. Just from the scam money, it's, it's honestly wild. And then a few months ago, I actually got a threatening message from the director, the founder of the manufacturing business.

And he was like, Oh, you know, you come from so much money. I was like, have you seen the car I drive? I don't come from money. It's

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do,

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Oh, it makes me so angry. So, they, they really pissed me off, but I'm like, you know what, Mona, just put it to bed now, like, we're moving on, I've got the business back on track, I'm stronger than ever, I've learned so much from it, but it was hell, and I think a lot of businesses, they go through a point where they actually make a massive loss, or like, something cost them a lot of money, and for me, I'm hoping that was it.

And I'm just like, oh, just, just, just let it go.

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Don't swing on behind

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I mean, it's not loads, but still, I mean, that's a lot

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Yeah. And I think so many people just don't talk about that.

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Was there anything, things that really

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And a lot of people say, like, I want to be open about mental health because it's something I really struggle with. Yeah. and a lot of people say finding a good therapist is kind of like dating and it takes a while. It's taking me eight therapists. And, but the last therapist I found has helped me so much and doing things like exposure therapy has really, really helped.

And also thinking about things like medication, like it's such a stigma around medication. It's, it's a really tricky one, but it helps. and it can get

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Yeah. And depression. Yeah. And I've noticed myself. Recently, because we've also got a family member who's really sick and they're at the end of life with cancer. And I, I don't, I've never had like panic attacks, maybe like back in the day when I was in corporate, which is a long time ago now. I can imagine that.

But I, like the other night. I couldn't sleep. I was just, and this is the first time it's happened in a long time. And I remember one of my friends who's very, very like high achieving. She's like most high achievers in business have high functioning anxiety. Because if you think about it, we are doing so well because we are like.

Operating on a kind of different nervous system level, like we're constantly probably looking out for threats and, and like, we're probably so alert and we're so like, yeah, really high highs. Yeah,

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I was like, oh, I didn't know that. And I was like, Yeah, you can have struggle with your mental health and you can also have a business.

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Yeah. Especially like as Asian women, we can be so hard on ourselves as well. But I think, I feel like we're raised to be hard on ourselves as well, which is not healthy. That's been really refreshing to hear that from yourself. So, how did TikTok blow up? And how did you learn everything? And let's just do a deep dive into content creation.

Yeah, because it's

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Like before my, I started doing good content on TikTok. It was just me pointing out words on the screen because that was, that's what was in at the time, like dancing on screen. But, with TikTok, it's an entertainment app and it's a storytelling app. So you need to have that in mind when you're creating content.

So what works well for me is storytelling. so I often create videos of me packaging an order with the customer. So often the customers share their stories behind their purchase. And I'll do a video sharing the story behind it. And that, they tend to work really well. With TikTok, like, you're not trying to sell content that is very obviously selling something doesn't tend to do well.

You want to sell in a subtle way and in a fun, entertaining way. That's why a lot of businesses use TikTok to, like, show behind the scenes of their office. so you have to keep that in mind when creating content for TikTok.

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And just like literally just trying out loads of ideas.

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But Google and YouTube are your best friend. I've learned everything on there and Chapter Beauty as well. I love Chapter Beauty. I use it for everything. Love it.

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Yeah. But there has been a tendency in the past, not so much now, but in the past, like when things got a little bit hard, I would be like, oh, can't do it. And then I'd be like, no, this is the blocks, this is what you have to overcome. But so many people give up when they get to that block, they're just literally like, I can't do it.

So has there been like a mindset that has kept you going? Because it sounds like you've had like a lot of obstacles to overcome, like what keeps you going do you think?

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I want to have a very exciting, fulfilled and fun non average life. And so I have to do things that people have never done before. so, I think that's what keeps me going. And, yeah, like, I just want to live the best life and I just want to be happy. Because I do struggle so much with mental health.

Being happy has like, it's now such a priority to me. Nothing else matters apart from my happiness and health. So I will do whatever it takes. To live that kind of life. I'm like you as well. Like, I'm like, there's a solution to everything. Nothing's impossible. There is a solution. Also, as an entrepreneur, you have to have a problem solving mindset because every week something's going wrong without fail.

You're just constantly putting out fires. So you have to have a problem solving mindset. I get so many DMs of people being like, What manufacturer do you use? Or, I want to start a business but I'm too scared that a manufacturer's going to scam me. I'm like, don't start a business then. If you're that scared that early on, you're not cut out for it.

So you have to have a problem solving mindset. Entrepreneurship is so hard.

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It's amazing. Yeah. Just like nothing huge, but we're definitely like building it because I do definitely feel like I didn't want to be one of those people that because I've seen like a lot of people and this isn't like no judgment on them, but like can over over invest in their business, which I think is great.

I still do that. But I took a lot of my money out of my business and started putting it in properties like early. but what I was going to say was that like, it is the, it is the. Hardest thing you do, but it's also rewarding. I just, I wouldn't give it up. I just would not give it up. So do you have like a team now, Ramona, that helps you with things?

Like how, what does it look

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lment center, I think, end of: 2022

and that's been great. Also, started working with an e-commerce manager. I didn't think I needed one, but I got an email from someone. She has like 10 years experience in e-commerce, man managing, and I was like, oh, she sounds really great. Let's have a meeting with her. And I'm so glad that I'm working with her.

It's just opened up my eyes to so many things in business and I feel like. The business actually has a strategy now, before it was a bit like, you're kind of winging it for a long time. Yeah. But you had to have a plan in place, like, we, like for Black Friday and Christmas, she's helped me how, she's helped me calculate how much stock I actually need, because in the past it's been a bit of a guessing game, but I know exactly how much I need, which has been amazing.

We've also gone through like, our profit and loss, and like, planning, budgeting, and then I've also started working with a content strategist about a month or so ago.she helps me create, so she actually does the creatives for ads. Like Instagram ads and it's incredible. I was doing them myself before and it started great.

It was going down a bit. I was like, actually, I need help with this. And I don't know how she does it. She just creates these really great images for ads. And I also actually did an ads course this year.so. I was like, if I want to get my business to the next level, because it was kind of turning over the same amount every year, every month for a year, I was like, okay, like we need to just get to the next level.

Now we need to spend money. I did an ads course, which cost me around. It was 10, 000. Wow. Yeah, but it actually works out cheaper than getting an agency to do it. That's so true. So I was like, I'd rather spend the money.teach myself. So when I, when it does come to hiring someone, I know what questions to ask them because ads is just a whole other thing.

I don't know how they work, but now I understand it. So when I actually interviewed the content strategist, I asked all the technical questions. I was like, Oh, I know the answers to these. So

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Oh, it's so hard. So hard.

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When you invest in people, like money wise, it's a bit scary. Like, can I actually afford to pay them? But then you see the return and you see the growth from it. It's like, Oh. Like actually you do need a team.

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There's like lots of people Yeah, but some of them are brilliant and like I wouldn't change them at all. They've been with me for years, like, we've worked together. Some of them, it's just so difficult and it's, I'm just like, sometimes you just make, again,

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So I think that kind of put me off for a while.so yeah.

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I think a lot of people say like, Oh, I have an empowering brand. And I'm like, well, what are you doing to empower women? you need to be active about it. Yeah. It's all well and good saying I'm a feminist, but it's like how you're being active in the community. And last year I was focusing so much on just getting my business back that I had to put the charity on the, like, the back end because If I don't have a business, I can't do anything for charity.

So I feel like the business is in a good place now. And I want to donate a chunk of the money to a charity at the end of this year. I think a domestic violence charity. And I just want to be more active and like actually go to like women's shelters and stuff like that. Because I've been struggling with agoraphobia.

That's also another thing that's really held me back. But I'm getting there slowly and I want to just be more active in the community. And, I just want to really, like, get my products perfected. I feel like I'm still understanding what products work for my customers. I really want to perfect that, perfect that.

So when someone wears Rani Co, they're like, Oh, that's Rani Co, like, jewellery brand, like Monica Vinader. You know when it's Monica V. So I kind of want to perfect that. And I just want to grow a team. I want to move out of my parents house. Like, that's a really big thing as well. So I'm hoping next year I can start looking into moving out as well.

Yeah. I don't know if I'll ever get my own office, you know. It's a big expense. Yeah. I think remote working is working at the

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Oh,

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Like, it's, it's just got this beautiful blend, I think. I

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So, I get most of my stuff manufactured in Thailand. They're so professional. They get the, the metals they use. are from the same factory in Italy that brands like Chanel, Vivienne Westwood, they source their metals from there. The gold plating's done five minutes down the road from the factory. And brands like Pandora, Chanel, Vivienne Westwood, they get their jewelry gold plated there.

So they're really great manufacturers. Yeah.

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Did you, for this, for your business, did you just literally just learn it as you were going along? Yeah. Yeah. And, and did you ever feel like. Oh my god, like, I just want to give up. Like, was there ever a moment where you were like,

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Especially in the first three years when it wasn't working. I was like, this isn't working. Like, should I, should I just give up? But no, I just believed in it so much. But also, A lot of people ask me, was it scary when you started your business? I'm like, no, because it was scarier for me to be in a nine to five for the rest of my life.

Some people work so well nine to five and I'm so happy for them because I couldn't do it. Like I see my sister getting constantly promoted at work. I'm like, that's incredible. I never got promoted once, so I couldn't stay anywhere for a year. So, I'm not putting down nine to five because if you love your job, that's so important.

but for me, yeah, it just, it just didn't work.

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Like what is it? I used to shame myself so much. Yeah. Like in my

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And literally, this was when I was waking up at like 4am with heart palpitations, and back then, like, no one knew what, like, anxiety was. And I went to my doctors and he was like, yeah, like, I'm signing you off for anxiety. And I was like, what do you mean? Like, what's anxiety? Because I wasn't eating. It was awful.

You know, it's not, it's awful. Yeah. so Ramona, what, what kind of tips would you give to anyone that's, like, starting their business, but also, like, scaling their business as

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But also networking is really important. Because it is quite lonely doing everything yourself. but what helps me is making friends with people in business. You get to have those business chats. You get to bounce ideas off each other. And you just get to help each other. Like, don't, I don't like it when you see entrepreneurs, they just gatekeep everything.

They're not willing to help others. Because I'm like But why? Like, there's space, there's room for all of us to grow. 100%.so make sure you make friends and business and network and just get out there.in terms of scaling, I would say don't be afraid to spend a bit of money. Like, Understand what the risks and rewards are of it, but don't be afraid to spend a bit of money.

Yeah. Don't be afraid to spend money. and I was saying that a lot of people think that they need to go into ads straight away.

But I would recommend not doing that. Try to get as much organic traffic as you can, mostly through social media. Then people say, but I don't know what kind of content to create. You have to experiment because different things work for different businesses. So try and get as much organic traffic as you can.

and then go into ads, like it's taken me three years to finally invest in ads. And I know other businesses who have, it's also taken them three years to do that because, it does require money ads. so I think scaling do it slowly and gradually though, because businesses that grow very fast, very quickly, they really struggle.

And that's when they just can't go bankrupt or like. It's just too stressful. So slow, gradual growth is actually better.

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Because I guess you're, you know, like today it's a Friday, you're doing meetings. I'm like that as well. Like before I got here, I was like on my laptop this morning, like, you know, then you have meetings and you have, I have clients. And obviously with you, you've got your other, other work to do, so how, I know content's really important, but how do you always prioritise content, I guess?

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That really helps. I also have content pillars that I use for Instagram. So it's like promote, educate, entertain, inspire. I can't remember the other one. And I just write a whole list of ideas and I just pick the ideas that I like and I just schedule that for the week. So that really helps. With TikTok, TikTok's a difficult one because it's such a reactive platform and like the trends are changing like every week.

I set aside two hours every day to film TikToks and edit them and you should really be posting three times a day on TikTok. Wow. It's a lot, but I only do twice because I just don't have the time. And there are days now where I just don't post at all because I'm like, I'm just human. I don't like it when I get so caught up on the content, I get really stressed out.

I'm like, you know what, Ramona, if you're tired, don't post. Yeah. It's fine. And I think investing in ads this year has really helped with that because. Before I had to keep showing up on social media and if I didn't show up for like a week, my sales would go down, but investing in ads has helped me to, if I do want to take that break from social media, I still get sales coming in.

So, that's been very helpful. And

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So we were in Canada for a little while as well. My husband was working there and we were just like literally newly married and I was doing weddings in England back to Canada. I was literally like, honestly, like when I say running around like a headless chicken, like my wedding planning business was doing so well, my coaching business.

And I was like trying to keep up with like friends, family. And I think that's. That was the start of like my health issues because then I, a few years later, I got diagnosed with like PCOS and all these other things. Yeah, so, but now I'm in the school of thought where Like, I still work pretty hard. And in the last year, to be really honest, last year because I had like a couple of family deaths and a couple of really horrible things happened, I did like, chill for a bit.

going into: 2025

Sometimes I work on a Sunday, if I have to, like, a couple of weeks ago I had to, this Sunday I'll probably have to because we've got our podcast launch coming up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So do you, how does that work for you, do you think, like, there's not so much balance I guess, but the blend.

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It's really bad. I was literally on my Instagram stories just before this talking about it. I don't take many breaks in the year and it's so unhealthy, so, and it's really bad because I always get tired towards the end of the year. And this is my busiest time, Q4, so I'm always like, oh Ramona, you did it again.

My mom's always like, take a break, but I think sometimes it sounds silly because at the moment I don't like flying because of agoraphobia. And I feel like I don't get a holiday unless I'm out the country. So I'm like, I can take a break in the UK, but I don't really feel like I've had a break. So I'm like, what's the point in taking a break?

I'm just going to keep working. But also I don't know how to not work now. It's quite bad. I work six days a week, and I work like 12 hours a day, but this week I've been feeling really overworked, like your motivation goes down. I'm like, what's the point? Like, I need to go out and I needed some fun in my life, then it gets to that point.

So I think maybe I'll take like a day off next week and get my hair cut or something like that. But even today I'm going to go and work after, but I'm just going to like do some like chilled work. But. I don't think you really have a balance with the first however many years, I'm being honest with you.

No. I think as long as you enjoy it, enjoy what you do, that's really important and that keeps you going. but yeah, I actually can't give advice on balance because I have no balance and it's really unhealthy.

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Okay, we're going to go for a walk, then we're going to read. And I'm like, oh, like when I do relax, I'm like, how can I relax productively? I was like, oh, Ramona, come on, just give it a break. Like, it's so bad. But also when you are on holiday, you think about work. Like, that's just the nature of having a business.

But sometimes I think when I have like an actual team, it will help because then I can walk away for like a few weeks, knowing that the work is still going on in the background. But if I walk away now for a week No one's posting on social media, that's an issue. The, my fulfillment center, if they message me about something, I have to then tell my customer service person, like, they're still, I'm still very involved in my business.

and if I, if I'm not there for like a week, things do slow down, so that's an issue. We're going to get there, Ramona. We're going to get there because, like, I have to because I, like, I'm getting older. I'm getting tired now. Like, I'm not that old, but I feel it. Like, it's going to get to a point where you have to just let things go.

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Thank you.