2# - How to Create a Leading Fashion Business, Overcome Big Challenges, and Make Competition Irrelevant: A Conversation with Marni Kaur

I've only seen you a couple of times on video, but like really confident. but then when I like messaged you, I was like, Oh, you're so nice. Like, I don't know about that. I definitely come across confident cause I am. Yeah, of course you are. Cause you could pop me anywhere and I'd be fine.

I think you come across really like, What's the right word? I don't know. Don't be diplomatic though. Maybe, maybe because like, maybe it's just what you, more necessarily about you, but what you think about. You've brands that are like flat. You maybe think they're not that approachable.

100 percent people would think that. But what's changed is the ground. I'm the opposite of that. So what's really lovely, like girls come into the store and they'll go, is Marni here? And they'll go, I feel like we know you. Yeah. And I'm like, cause on, on the ground, I don't edit. So, if I do something wrong, we'll just post it.

Like, if I do something stupid, they'll just post it because what people soon realise is if they come in the store, I'll do them sort of things all the time. Yeah. Like, all the stupidness, all the bloopers, there is no niceties. Yeah. There's no, do you want a cup of tea or not? I'm making myself one. Like, there's that.

Yeah. Whereas if you were somewhere else, I do think there's a level of what you're saying. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. In all the ASharn stores. Yeah. They all fucking think they're all that. We need to talk about this. Fuck. Like there's a lot of egos. Terrible. It's like they're paying for your outfit. The things I hear.

Yeah. This is true. The things I hear from girls, this is so true. Is so yeah. Disgusting. How they're degraded and belittled. Yeah. By going in the shop. 'cause some old top behind the accountants decided you ain't wearing the right clothes. Yeah. Are you joking right now? Yeah. Like it's just that, and for me, Sean, from the minute I open that business.

It was never about the product. It was only ever about, so, I've only ever worn those clothes, I mean, obviously I've got a clothes obsession, you know, it's evident in what I am and what I do, but, I thought everyone must love it, like, but people didn't know about it when I started, and all I ever wanted everyone to do was discover it and fall in love with it.

Yeah. So when people come in, it's just about having a good time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And designer clothes ain't, it ain't for everybody. Everyone, of course. And it isn't, and, and, and what I do isn't for everybody, and That's okay. Yeah. But come in and have the best time. 100%. And we have, I need to make a note about that.

it's true though, isn't it? Yeah. Because I think, so like, we know if you went south or you went one that even in them shops, they're so horrible to people. Yeah. They are mean. I feel like sometimes I think as ASharn women, especially like we always feel like nervous going shopping because we feel like we're going to get judged.

But you are. Yeah, yeah, exactly. You are. Yeah. So I can't sit here and go, no, that doesn't happen because. Everything, everyone says to me, every single day, even 13 years in, people are mean, like shop owners are mean,

So today we have the amazing Marni Kaur, who is the CEO of BiBi London.

So Marni, thank you so much for being here. Thank you for having me. Oh my God. I'm so excited for this podcast interview. So there's just obviously so much to talk about, but let's just start from the beginning. It'd be great for you to just introduce yourself to the audience. Wow. Okay. So the beginning I'm Marni, and I run BB London, and BB London is a multi brand store.

I also have my own fashion line. I run a photo studio, music studio amongst other things. so my brain is a little bit of a mess most of the time. but years ago, so we were the first designer in the country, if I was going to put it in a nutshell. Yeah. BB London was born out of the My obsession for clothing.

I'm obsessed with all types of clothing. It don't matter what it is. I'm obsessed with it. and. what happened was that there wasn't any way that I could buy my clothes here. And I just thought, well, if I want to wear them clothes, then everybody must want to wear them clothes. So then Bibi Ladan was born at a very different time to now.

and so we were the first designer we saw in the country. And,I just believed that there was, space for these beautiful products because they are exceptionally beautiful. They are very different. Like the quality is different. The cuts are different. The silhouettes are different. There's just so much untapped talent within that.

it obviously started back in: 2011

Right? Yes. Right. And How, how did you do all of that? Because I guess, obviously we are in a different era now. Yeah. But back then it almost must have been so much harder because there was no, Instagram wasn't, I don't think Instagram was around then. Wasn't, oh my God. There wasn't that. I think Facebook was just kind of kicking off, but there was no kind of Facebook business pages.

Yep. So like how did you, how did you make it all happen? Sharn, and it kind of, I suppose this is the bit where people who won't remember or don't remember because obviously girls, young girls today won't remember a time without Instagram and they won't remember a time without social media and all the access to global information because that's what it is.

Websites and all of these other things as well. All of them basically evolved that all grew together and evolved together. But when I started, you're quite right. It didn't exist. So, back then there was publications in ASharna Magazine, ASharna Magazine, ASharn Bride Magazine, we used to do wedding shows.

it was so difficult, Sharn, because what I was doing was, it was, I was the first. So when you're the first of anything, there's the uncertainty around being the first. You don't know, If anyone's ever going to want your product, you can just assume that someone's going to want your product and you can kind of think that you have a gut instinct about the product, but I used to spend hours educating people that they'd come into store.

I was the first person to work on appointment. So before my store, no one worked on appointment.and it was because I understood that if I was going to sell this premium product, it had to be celebrated in a certain way. And to start a whole new conversation to explain to somebody why they are paying X amount of money for something that they've obviously never paid that sort of money for, you had to really explain yourself, you know, really sell yourself, Yes. So it was around really talking to the client about. Bollywood, the placement around Bollywood because my clothes are worn by Bollywood stars. I mean, more so then there and then now, but in those days, my goodness me, like the craftsmanship, the materials, the fabrics and, and all of these other things, which is what I'm so passionate about, which is what's really changed actually within the industry.

And we can talk about that later on, but we used to do wedding shows and you'd spend hours just talking to people. And Eventually, what happened was that one person told another, told another. We did big events. the, the shows at, at, say, ASharna looks different to everything else. And people naturally thought, Oh, what's that?

That looks different. and Yeah, there was nothing I didn't do, you know. it was really difficult. It was really hard. Yeah. All of those things, but I loved it. It was fascinating. You'd meet new people. You'd spend hours with them, trying on clothes, having the best time ever. yeah. I mean, it was, it was, it was amazing.

Yeah. That's, I know you can tell you're just so passionate about fashion and clothing. And I think when you're so passionate about something, it just, obviously the heart is hard work. Of course it is, but it's just so much more enjoyable when you're just passionate. Absolutely. Yeah. And how long did it take for it to kind of like kick off?

Yeah. So I think in my little head, it is still on its way. You know, I don't know. Like I still go in there like it's day one because for me there's mountains to climb. There's always, there's always a new one in there. Like I did my own line last year. Like It was really weird when, when obviously, I mean, I remember it must have been about a year or two in, I just remember thinking, Oh my God, I need to get stuff.

I need more stuff. I need more stuff. And the business was changing and people just knew about you. So before, when you'd go to a show, i. e. when you're doing a bridal show, you're doing an event, people really wouldn't know, you know, and then there came a point where people would come looking for us at the event.

because I got married around: 2014

Absolutely. And it would have been like, A show stopping stand. I think it was always like that. I mean, it meant a lot to me. The creative part of the business still means so much to me, like how we used to represent ourselves in the magazines was different. I used to do all my own creative direction, style my own shoots and the magazines hadn't done, let somebody do that before.

So that was a real privilege for me as well. and. At those times that, you know, people would just give them the clothes, they would style it and end up with images. But with me, I kind of had the image in my head of what I wanted it to look like and what I wanted the brand perception to be. And, you know, I think I was responsible for a whole host of brands.

So I wanted to represent them in the best possible way. Yeah, absolutely. And I'm just thinking about that as well. I just feel like you've been obviously such a leader in this field and such a pioneer in, like, leading the way because I think your level of creativity from what I remember now is all coming back.

at the fashion, like at the shows was, Just like a level above everyone else. Like it feels like you had the creativity there from a really rock from the early stages for sure. But I think I don't, I don't think I definitely not saying we're better than anybody else or anything like that. But when somebody is new, you get the chance to experiment.

So for me, it was new and I could see what I wanted it to be. I knew what I wanted it to be. And, and that's what I suppose has had to change over the years because as people become more brand aware. And as the industry changed, BB London had to change and evolve with it. And I think that's the most important thing, isn't it?

Because I obviously had, Krishma in earlier and we were talking about evolving and being, not sustainable as in like having that longevity in your business. And I think the key word that always comes up is obviously the long game, but evolving. And so many people get left behind because they don't evolve, especially in this day and age where like, it feels like every year there's something different.

Every month there's something different, like social media is different, brand perceptions different. Just so many things are always going on. How do you feel like you've been able to stay so relevant and current, even like What, like 12, 14 years later? I think, the way in which I do that is by listening to the consumer.

Firstly, cause they were lessons I learned really early on is the balance between how far people in the UK take fashion. Cause I don't take it as far as I'd want them to. Yeah. I learned that really early on because when I first started, I was so. The store looked like everything I'd wear. And, you know, and I remember at the time, one of my colleagues say, Marni, Marni, Marni, you've got a pair of his back.

And I was like, okay. And it's that constantly listening to what the customer wants, what they're saying, what they're trying, what's working, it's being responsive to them. So you can have your own ideas. And I've always got blinking ideas, but. They're definitely not always right. So it's listening to people and especially when you're in fashion, yes, things change all the time, but fashion isn't necessarily, that, easy either because not everything suits everyone.

So you really got to be mindful of that. You know, I might think something's magical, but then 10 others might go, Oh my God, that's ghastly. So it's really, really trying to have something for everyone, but listening to what everyone's saying. That's the key. Yeah. In order to create and give them what they want and need.

And I was going to ask you, Marni, when you first started, was there like a, there must have been a phase where you went through like a lot of research, like probably trips to India. I was always there, yeah. Yeah. So that, that, that must've taken up a lot of time, right, when you were first starting? It didn't.

Nah. Nah. So if you know me, I'd only go out for fashion weeks back then. so I'd be there for like six days. And at fashion week, it's very, it makes, it's easy for buyers like myself because everyone's there. Everything new's there. Shows are there, like, everyone's there. So in those five or six days, we see everything we want to see.

And, and it's about having an eye for knowing. So, when you curate, it's about understanding what, what people want and what each designer's genre is or their certain look or feel is. And I'm really decisive. when it comes to those things. So, yeah, I was there a lot, but I was, I was there a lot, you know, on fashion weeks or, you know, those sort of type of meetings, but not any more than a couple of times a year for short spells of time.

I'd never wanted to be away from the business for that long, firstly. And, I think if you know what you do, And, and you're confident in what you do. You can't, you just know, you just think, no, that's it. That's it. That's not going to work. No, that's it. Thank you. You start with anything else, my business, I'd say.

And then with site fashion, obviously, I don't know too much about fashion, but did you have to have like the right contacts or does it kind of not like that? work that way. People knock down my door to be stocked at BB. Yeah. Like we get asked from, oh God, I can't tell you how many emails we get. A day.

Yeah, a day, a day, every day. Do you remember me saying at the start of this that India is bursting with new talent, bursting. with new talent. But so that's the difficulty around fashion, isn't it? The only I mean, the lucky few make it so as to speak. And that's the same for fashion in India. There's so many new brands that come out and we get approached all the time.

So I'm in a very different space now than what I was back then. Back then I chose. By looking at what I felt represented. So Tarantelliani is for me, still my favorite designer, but the most iconic, the most expensive. Yeah. but just the most beautiful in terms of what, what that couture offered. Pao Singhal, she's really innovative, really cool.

and then Charmin Brimica, there were three brands I started with. Charmin Brimica, very traditional. I mean, they're all friends, but it all kind of, it was there for that reason, because it didn't matter who you were, you'd walk in, you'd find what you wanted. And so, and that's the thing about fashion. So everyone dresses differently, don't they?

And everyone is different. So it was more about finding something for everyone.and as it's evolved, I'll tell you what's really changed, Sharn. People know about the brands now, so they'll come into my store. And they know the brands because they've seen it on the, on Instagram or they've seen someone wear it or whatever, not, but it's also the, everything's become either it's elevated into two ways.

Either it's become a lot more expensive. So our premium brands, our luxury brands have become a lot more expensive, but there's also a rise of more affordable brands. And within that there's, a compromise I feel, I think the compromise is, things like obviously the, the, the. the silhouette, is not as complicated when they're producing X amount.

Whereas in something, it's a very exclusive couture handmade piece. I mean, yeah, it's, there's nothing like it. Yeah. There's really nothing like it. And I was going to say, in terms of like the sector, I suppose the fashion sector, there might be this perception that like, People don't spend on luxury bands like obviously ASharn people spend loads on weddings, but like there's always this thing like, Oh, maybe just go to India cause it's cheaper.

ASharns don't spend that much on luxury premium brands, but like obviously with your brand, like that's just not the case because your ideal client is someone who does like, does spend money on fashion. So how have you. How do you think, like, your branding has played a role in that? And how do you feel like you've attracted those people, I guess?

e that might be a thousand or: 2000

There's become, there's new designs, which have made it a little bit more affordable as well. So before, you know, the Lengas wouldn't have been as some of them are a lot more reasonable than you think. So you're actually competing with the high street in terms of your pricing, but you're buying a premium branded product.

And for us, people, all sorts of people come to us. Some girls who might have saved and really want that special outfit, which is amazing. Like that's brilliant. Other girls who might be able to buy two or three outfits, but whichever, which one it is, it's more about them coming in, finding it, enjoying it and having fun.

I think that's the main crux of it. And the main crux for me, I'm always looking at it. And when I curate, I curate cause I think. It doesn't matter what type of person you are, you can find something at Bebe. It just doesn't matter. Like there's so, there's so much in store. It's the biggest collection of designer outside of India.

So I mean, yeah, it's a big range, right? It's a big playground to play in that way. Yeah. Yeah. I love that so much. And earlier, before we came onto this podcast, we were talking about. You know, the fashion industry can be a bit judgy, especially when you go into like boutiques or stalls or shops. But what I was saying about you was cause obviously I've got to let you know, got to know you over the last few months because obviously you're going to be at our event on the third on the panel.

Like you're just so wonderful and so nice. Honestly, like I remember like I was messaging you this week and. obviously we're talking about a journey to get in and you were like, Oh, you know, take care because it's really cold. I kept thinking, Oh my gosh, she's going to get on that blinking train in the cold.

And I just thought that's such a nice thing to say, like that's really considerate thing to say. And I think in this day and age where obviously we're all just so busy and I know with you, like your life is so fast paced, which we're going to get into, You have got that really wonderful, kind energy.

Oh, Sharn, thank you. And no, it's true. It's absolutely true. And, how do you think that's played into your success for your business? should I be honest? Do you want me to be absolutely 100%? I think it's the reason why BB London is where it's at. I think had I, you know what it is for me, like, and if you knew me, like, I know you've got to know me, but if you spent a day in store with me, you'd be like, Oh my God.

Oh my God. So firstly, there's nothing I don't do in store, like nothing. I love making like the cups of teas and all of that sort of stuff. I love getting to know the people. When people come into store, I just think it's such a privilege. They've come all that way. To come and see us. Like that's mad, isn't it?

Yeah. Because when I started, I didn't know if anyone would come. Like now we get clients from all around the world, which is like amazing. But when I started, that wasn't the case. Don't forget. And so I spent loads of time with clients back then that you just, you know, I, and I still do. So I know I sell great clothes, but my job is so beautiful because of the people I meet that I meet amazing people.

And like, you get to know their families like. You get to know their dogs sometimes because they sometimes, yeah, they do ask and I go, well, I'm not sure the other clients are going to like that, but if no one's about, then yeah. And you do, you get to know everything about everyone. And that's because I'm invested in everyone.

Yeah. I'm invested in everyone that comes through that door because, do you know, the fact that you've made that journey to come all that way to come and spend your time with me is an absolute honor and a privilege for me. Yeah. And that's incredible that you've stayed so, like, humble and grounded because you do see, especially in this day and age, like, I think we're living in this, like, really crazy era.

It's absolutely wild because even I've known people over the years and, like, you know, if someone gets a bit of success or they get more followers or more reach, like, people just change so quickly. And I think what I'm realising especially, like, I just want to stay really grounded and really humble, like, as I evolve and grow as well.

But I think It is just so important, isn't it, for the long game, because I think your clients remember you being kind and nice, how you make them feel, so I think it's just Uber, Uber important. And you mentioned obviously, like when you said, like in the beginning, when like you're waiting around for clients to come, was there like a point, in your business where you saw like, yes, it's working.

And was it like at the beginning, was there like, cause I know when I first started my wedding planning business before coaching and mentoring, I remember like, I had a couple of zero income mom months and I was literally like, it was like soul destroying. It was so hard when there's like no income coming in.

I was like crying in my office. Did you have those kind of moments or have you always been quite positive? I think I've always just been positive.there's times where obviously, like you'd get the odd Saturday where it was quiet and you'd think, oh my God, what's going on? And then what you actually realize is that, with everything that we do, there's ups and there's downs, right?

Mm-Hmm. And as long as every day you go in and you are giving it a hundred percent. and you're not fooling yourself, that's the main thing, isn't it? Not fooling yourself. Because like, it's like me sitting there thinking, oh yeah, I've got the best product in the world and really it is not. You know, like, it's all of these silly things that you think that I spent all my time thinking about.

All I do is think about what did that person say that they wanted or what did that person really like? What were they trying? What were they doing? The brain never stops. But there weren't, I don't think there was a time where I felt like this isn't working because it almost, baby, as it started, cause when, when we went in, when we started, it was nonstop work because you had to graft for those customers.

Like you were grafting for that customer that, so you were doing shows, like I said, we were doing appointments. I'd spend hours with each client, whatever it took, I would do it. Whatever it took. Don't forget. They didn't even know the brand name and there you are charging them like a thousand pounds for.

Something, and they're looking at you, mate, when they spent a hundred pounds on saris before, and there you are standing there all smug on the ground, like totally mental, isn't it? But then when you talk about, when, when, when you, when you're in business and you talk about product placement, why is Indian product any different to anything else?

It actually isn't. These are handcrafted, hand dyed, you know, products, they're couture, they're made for you, that they are cut by incredible, incredible craftsmen, you know, and when you really understand what you're buying and then when you try it on and you realize it and you really feel it, you, well, it sells itself.

Yeah. Cause that was going to be my next question, like, because obviously you were the, the first pioneer in this space. Like, how did you know, like, how to sell? And, and I guess back then there were probably no courses, like, there were no mentors, like, it, the internet was just kind of coming in, like, obviously the internet was around.

But it weren't like now. It's not like YouTube, you can just go on YouTube and learn something. Yeah. Or like download, like, something for free. So, like, how did you, it must have been such a massive learning curve.first point was, selling, I still don't sell. I don't need to sell. Yeah. I don't, I don't need to sell.

I mean, if you want to buy the product that I have on my shelves, you're more than welcome to. If you don't, you don't have to. But once you put it on, you understand you fall in love with it. The clothing element of it and the construct of it all. I've known that since I was really young. I mean, I could turn the garment inside out.

I could tell you about the fabric, how it was made, what embroidery it was. It's just what I do. Yeah. I spend all day, every day, right. All the time. And I know it about Western European desire, everything. I know. I just, there is nothing else in my little head but clothes. Yeah, there is nothing else. And I suppose it's like sitting with someone who might be a car enthusiast or I don't know, somebody, who might be an artist or whatever or not.

If you sit with someone and you talk to them about their passion or something that they know a lot about, generally within that conversation, that conversation will evolve and you'll want to know more and you'll want to know more. And you want to know more and that's what happens when you come into store and you hang out with me for a while because I'm so excited by it all.

And, and when, when someone puts it on, they just see it for themselves. Same with the menswear, like you could just see it, they'll say, I've tried other stuff but this feels different. And you'll say, yeah, because it feels different. It kind of is different. Yeah. Because I think everyone I've interviewed, like, you know, all the, all the amazing people that I get to meet and interview and have at my events and all of those things, like there's this common theme and it's like, almost like obsession and passion.

Yeah, I see it. And do you feel like for you, that's been the case, right? Cause it definitely sounds like it. 100%. I mean, I just think if you're passionate about what you do, You'll do it. Well, I'm not saying you won't be successful if you're not as passionate, because I think in certain businesses, if you've got a good business model, it'll work anyway.

But what it does is it elevates it and it makes it so much more pleasurable for you and the other person and your teams and everyone you work with and everyone around you. Because if you're excited and happy, you'll do it. You'll do it. about what you're doing, where you're going and how, how it's going to happen.

Then the energy is infectious, isn't it? I know that's what people always say that to me as well. They're like, Oh, not to do my own. You're a happy person. Now you are, you are, you are. Everyone's like, Oh my God, your energy. I'm wondering if people used to say that to me first. Like, Oh, I love your energy. I didn't understand what they were talking about.

Cause I was like, what are you talking about? They were like, I love your energy. I love your energy. I'm like, what are they saying? But I think it's because I'm, yeah. normally quite positive, quite happy. Obviously not 100 percent of the time because I'm a human being having a human experience, but I think it just makes a difference.

Yeah, absolutely. It does. It's infectious, isn't it? Energy. and like you, you are, I, I mean, obviously I know you're a positive person. You're, you're smiling at somebody, you make someone feel good. Yeah. Someone they, you know, I'd wanna be around you, you know? Yeah. There is that charna and unfortunately, I mean, unfortunately, just because somebody's not as smiley or whatever as us doesn't mean they're any better or worse person in us.

It's just that when somebody has good energy or positive energy, it becomes something you'd like to be a part of. Mm. And do you feel like Marni with you? Like, have you. Do you feel like you've done on your journey like any kind of like mindset work or spirituality or do you feel like you've just been really just in your element and just been really driven by like the purpose and the obsession, I guess?

Yeah, definitely. spirituality and life and all of that kind of stuff. Cause I don't really bring that into my workspace. You know, like I'm definitely one of those who thinks a lot and I have my own sort of personal spiritual journeys and all that. Yeah. Not relevant to work though. As in you've had that journey though, spirituality or not?

I don't know. No, no, I, I, as a human being, as me, if you knew me, I'm just naturally charitable. Yeah. So, and that's where it needs to start and end for me. It's about the giving. The, the, the other part of it, if you like, the mental health part of it or the mindset part of it for me. doesn't come through it, it normally for me, it's just getting out, exercising and dashing back and I'm good.

but no, I don't think I've been on any necessary spiritual journey, but I definitely think that, obviously there's learns and there's all these other things that happen. There's COVID happened. All of these other things happen during these times that I've run the business, Instagram. Which is not a positive, space necessarily, but it works so well for me and my business.

Of course. But at the same time, it's one of those double edged swords, isn't it?and throughout that, you've just got to be mindful, I think. Of everyone and everything that comes around you because for me also, Sharn, there's girls that come in all the time, you know, different girls, different ages, women, and, and people are going through different stuff.

Yeah. A hundred percent. A hundred percent. So be mindful, I'd say. I think especially on social media, like it's the best thing for your business because it's a free tool, but at the same time, like you open yourself up. Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. Like, open yourself up for judgment, criticism, people not liking what you're doing, how much you're charging, like, what your values are, what your thoughts and opinions are.

You're so right. But I just think. Honestly, like, if someone's like coming into your DMs and like saying nasty things, I think it says more about them than you, you know? Yeah, but it's a brutal space, isn't it? It's this brutal space. Yeah. and I think for young girls especially, there's, what's really changed, Sharn, is, is, their perception of what they want to be on their wedding day.

If funny enough, no longer is for them. It's for everyone else. I completely agree. I 100 percent agree because even when I got married, I mean, I had an amazing day. Like it was incredible. But what I did find was like, It, especially with ASharn weddings, it starts turning into what would everyone else like?

What does everyone else want rather than yourself? And I think one thing that's probably a good thing that's come out of COVID is I suppose like weddings, I was talking to Krishna Mareli and she was saying weddings are like downsizing now. A lot of people are going abroad. a lot of people are saying no to like the 800.

Obviously, people are still doing these weddings, but maybe less of those now, which I think can only be a good thing really, because that's a lot of people to have at your wedding.have you ever had imposter syndrome, Marge?I think we all do, don't we? And I, I, I think again, going back to social media, I think social media creates that.

100%. I think if it wasn't for social media, you know what you said about being exposed, because I think that's what that does because what you do is, I don't know if it, you look back at it. I mean, you might look at something that was a year ago and you might think, why did I do that? Or why did we do that?

Or what? It might be me. It might be we. It doesn't matter. But I do think it makes you second guess yourself. Yeah. Usually I talk out loud, so I'll say, and I, and I like everyone around me in the team and I'll bounce it back off of people. And by doing that, I think that kind of reaffirms certain things.and also I, I'm normally confident in what I've done in the first instance or what I've chosen to do as a company, we'll talk things through anyway, even if it might be something that an individual person in the team is going to do, but we'll all bounce off of each other.

And I think we're all honest with each other. I just think it's a natural way of life, isn't it? You second guess yourself. Mmm, I think on social media it's so noisy right now. I think Instagram especially, like, I remember a few years ago it used to be like my happy place. I used to love going on Instagram.

But now I just feel like it's not necessarily anything that anyone's doing. It's more around The culture of Instagram. I agree with you. And the way Instagram is. And I mean, let's be honest, we're all looking at the highlight reels of everyone. Like it's always the highlight reels. And obviously we know that on a conscious level, like when we're looking at the highs and obviously people probably look at me or you and think that, you know, Oh my God, this person's doing this, that, and the other, but.

I think it's just really important to make sure, like, you manage your social media consumption and what you're consuming. That's really hard. And I also think, you know, this year, I kind of, even today, I stopped myself a couple of times. So I've just, I've been in London, and obviously we're still in London, but I've been in London.

All day today and I didn't take a single picture because I didn't want to post it because it's almost a sense of That's not my reality Yeah, I might buy this or I might eat that or I might go to that place But if you really know me, I don't care for any of those things really I care for them for me I don't care for them for the gram Oh my God, like, that really just speaks to my heart because I've been feeling the same.

Like I've done so many, like I went to Doha in October. Yeah, lovely. It was amazing. We had the best time. I've not even posted any pictures because I'm just kind of like Don't want to be judged for it. It's not more about judgment. It's more, I think with me, I've been really honest with my audience as well about this.

It's like, I don't want to come across really like. showy. Does that make sense? I want to be, I want to be relatable. But then at the same time, like, I don't know how much you know about me, but I've literally come from like scratch, like nothing. So I'm like, I should be celebrating that. Like I'm doing all these incredible things, but I'm like, Oh my, and a trip I took to Saudi Arabia a year ago, I've not shared anything from it.

And I'm really trying to check in with what that is and why I am not doing that. There's probably some work I need to do around that, but I totally hear you. Like, I'm not one of those people that wants to post like 24 7, you know, because I tell you what it does is it gives people full sets of perception and reality because if we pa, if you pa, I mean, I eat bloody scrambled eggs every day.

I literally I do every day for the last four years or so. Now if I posted that every day, it kind of shows that I've got a sort of slight issue around scrambled eggs, didn't it? But it's really uninteresting, isn't it? But that's who I am. I'm a blinking girl who eats scrambled eggs every day. No, I don't, you know, I might be at a bougie restaurant every now and again, but do you see my point?

Yeah, it's not, it's not the constant in your life. The bougie restaurants aren't the everyday reality, right? No, they're not. And the everyday reality is really boring, so then we don't put it on the ground. And the things that are really nice or lovely that we do, which is a treat, you might put on the gram, but then that becomes, you become judged on and you become, I don't know, it's a really, I want to say like from the start of this year, I just went, nah, nah, I can't bother to do that.

No, I won't. Nah. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Just being a little bit more selective of what I put out there, but. I mean, I don't know. It's weird, Nick. Yeah, that's really refreshing to hear. And I know our audience will really appreciate that because I think there is big pressure, especially right now to put everything online and, you know, show your success and all of those things.

obviously you balance a lot. Marni, like I've had some WhatsApp conversations with you and you're like, yeah, like I'm working from like 6am till like, it's a while, didn't it? Yeah, midnight. I'm like, oh no, you know, and I remember saying to you, and I hope you get some time off over Christmas and you were like, yeah, probably not.

So how do you, because obviously you're a mother, right? Yeah. So how do you balance every, well, there's no such thing as balance, blend, blend everything. I don't know if you can, I don't know if you do. So the, the full sense of perception is that whole, Oh, it's all perfect and everything's lovely.

Everything gets done. The laundry's all clean and dry and folded and put away, the kids are fed, they're in bed, I'm sat there with my blinking Apple Mac. No, that's not how it works at all. So, my days are long. My days are long because, number one, I've got two children, and then I've got a little, I've got a dog, I've got a business, I've got, You know, people that work with me.

So all these, all these other people didn't ask to be in my space. I've sort of invaded theirs, haven't I? I've had the kids. I've got BB. So it's my duty, to always think about other people before myself, first and foremost. So when I get up in the morning, it's sorting out the kids and then figuring out what do they need at work.

India might have like loads of questions for me. So my colleagues in India might need to ask me a load of stuff. So really it's for me, it's about giving constantly. Constantly, constantly, constantly. And, and within that, there isn't that much balance. So if I was going to sit here and like, Oh yeah, I'll get loads of time to myself.

Oh yeah. I'm always off for a retreat. Oh my God. That's not the case. It's just not the case. The reality of it is it's really difficult. You don't sleep very much and you have to work really hard, but I do something I love. I've got two beautiful children. And, and I really, I couldn't really ask for much more.

So, there's gonna have to be a bit of sacrifice. And if you think about it, Sharn, and this is my, this is why I've always thought about it. The generation that came before us, the first lot of immigrants who came here, the trailblazers, the people who left their motherlands, who came here, couldn't speak the language, who have managed to buy homes, educate us, mobilize us.

They're the people who worked hard, the rest of us just reap the rewards, right? Oh my God, like that like just makes you so emotional because it's just, it's just so true. And I think in our, I think in our, not maybe our generation, but a little bit actually, yeah, our generation, the younger generation, I think a lot of the time there is, I think we're just going to be brutally honest on this podcast.

There's this like victim mentality. Oh my God, my life's so hard. And I sometimes catch myself doing it. I'm like, Oh, like today I was like, you know, before this, I had a. venue, venue meeting. And then I had, like, obviously two podcasts and now I've got a meeting after this. And now I've got other things to do today.

Yeah, a full day. And then I've got to work on Sunday. And, cause obviously we've got our event and that's going to take all our energy. But I'm like, why am I like complaining? Like I'm loving what I'm doing. I absolutely love what I do. Like, this is so amazing. I get to sit down with the most incredible people, host the most amazing events.

coach. And then I think about my mom who had like three jobs and I never saw my mom complain. Like she was doing, she would get up at like 4. 30am, go and do a cleaning job till 7am, come back at 7, like get us sorted, then go at like half eight with my dad, then like she'd come home at three, have like a two hour gap, then go again in the evening.

And you're like, You're complaining about your life like you can't do that. No, we can't complain and there ain't no balance and it's alright Yes, but it's actually it's alright because you can't have it all and I don't know some people might have it all but as far as I can see it, you can't have it all.

So my kids don't get to see me on the weekends because I'm at work and I work long hours. You know, I'm not always there for pick up. I am sometimes there for drop off. No, my house ain't always clean. You know, like there's so many things that will cost and you, you basically trade one off against the other.

But what I really understand is as a child of an immigrant. Mate, we've got it easy. And that's, that's where it starts and ends. I 100 percent agree with you. I'm so glad we had that conversation. And one thing that always comes up, Marni, is that obviously I'm not a mother yet, but I hear a lot of ASharn women talking about mummy guilt.

Do you ever get that? I think every mum does. Don't think it's an ASharn mum thing. I think any mum. Yeah. Like, I think if I'm, like, if it's been a really long day and I'm really tired at the end of the day. And I ain't got in this like seven o'clock in the evening and they might want to play or they might want to do something and I'm too tired to do it.

You feel bad. I also feel bad if like, for example, I ain't seen them the whole day. I hate that. I hate that. I hate not seeing them the whole day. sometimes you feel, I mean, I try to always be there for like school stuff and all of that because there's nothing more important than that for me. In my life that I want to be there for every assembly and every whatever I can, but yeah, there is times you feel guilty and you think you're not around enough, but what's enough?

Exactly. You know, absolutely. And, and I think growing up, what everyone always says to me is, especially sometimes because I'm in the stores really busy, you know, when the school holidays and I don't get those days off with the kids, but what I've had so many conversations with so many people throughout the years and they'll say, but Marni, those kids will look at you and think, yeah, my mom was working.

It weren't like my mom was. lounging around or doing whatever it was for herself. She was working. So as, as I hope that, that, that is a good thing for them, a positive thing for them. And hopefully it will work in, in the way in which you might, they might think, Oh, my mom was a good role model as opposed to a bad one.

Yeah. And I think there's this whole, like, again, like I've seen some you know, follow some people on social media. There's like this perception sold that like, you know, you can, and absolutely you can, you have that choice if you want to be with your children 24 seven, that's absolutely fine. But in, in most cases, especially if you're ambitious, you're driven, you want to evolve, you want to grow your brand.

Like, I just don't think it's probably totally possible to do that 24 seven, like with your children and, you know, especially like You know, like with you as well, Marni, like you work at weekends, right? Oh, yeah. That's like your busiest time. It's busiest time. But I think sometimes, like, and I know a lot of people might not want to hear this, but I think it's true, like, you do have to make sacrifices.

That's a sacrifice, isn't it? Yeah, absolutely. And I think some people find it really hard, like, like you were saying, like, find it really hard to like, accept that they're sacrifices or accept that you can't balance it all. Because everyone thinks you can have it all and that's the problem with social media.

And that's the problem if you, and it is an age thing. I'm talking from, I'm a grown ass woman. So I'm going to say it in a grown ass way. You know, like I went back to work when my daughter was three weeks old. I gave birth. I was back in there three weeks with my daughter, six weeks with my son. Why? I mean, I've got colleagues, but that business means everything to me.

Literally, it means everything to me. No, I'd run in, feed them, come back, and I still, like, it's mental. It sounds so bizarre. But my commitment to that organization and the people who come through my doors, is absolutely above and beyond anything I can describe to you. I can only tell you in practical terms what that meant to me in my life.

And that's what that meant. I completely 100 percent agree with you because with my business as well, I do end up doing like, I do like have evenings. I do try and like switch off because I think for me, like if I'm on social media late, it impacts my sleep. Then it impacts my productivity the next day. So I do have those like really strong boundaries like in the kind of in the evenings more so.

and obviously I'll try it the weekend as well, because luckily, like, you know, I don't have to like with yourself, you have to be in the store and stuff with me. It's all online. But I have found that, like, I hate saying this. I don't know. Some people might judge me for it, but my business is my baby.

It's like my first baby. Like, it's so important to me. And it's I really care about it. It's constantly on my mind. I constantly think about it, even when I'm not working. And I think that when you're passionate and you're committed, like, It's that level of like love for your business that propels you to the next level, isn't it?

For sure. It's so important. So Marni, what sort of time, like what does this typical day look like for you? Do you get up super early? I don't like getting up early, but yeah, I do have to be up early. And so it depends. It depends if it was a weekday or the weekend, but generally I'm up at about 10 to 7, like a quarter to seven ish like that.

And then the kids will go off to school or whatever. And then I might get a class in at nine o'clock and then, that's what I mean, I'll run, drop them off, then run into a class, do an hour, get back, get showered, get in store. And then in the day, normally finishes up in store about seven o'clock. So in the, in the early part of the day.

There might be loads of inquiries from India, everyone on the phone, because they're five hours ahead, so that impacts that time. Clients start coming in for help at half past ten in the morning, and then the rest of the day is around them, really. Or we might be shooting, or someone might be on a shoot, or we might have a media thing on, or it, it really does vary.

Like, sometimes then at the end of the day, You know, if once I've gone in and sort the kids out and I put them to bed or whatever not, I might have to go back out again for something work related, which could mean the day ends up at midnight ish, you know, one o'clock ish by the time you land back in again, or alternatively, sometimes I'll train at the end of the day after they've gone to bed.

So then I'll sort of, my day normally finishes up about midnight, no matter what day, but it's always changing. Yeah. Midnight, one o'clock like that. And then you go to sleep. Yeah. And I do that pretty much seven days a week. I mean, it's, I have a lot of energy. Everyone always says I have a lot of energy to exert.

Yes. So I'm not, I can't, I don't really sit down and watch telly and stuff like that. You don't. Yeah. So there's no Netflix in Marni's world. Not really, darling. No, no, not unless I'm really sick or tired. It's like, nah, I don't, no, no, because like I said, all the things that I do and everyone who is dependent upon me didn't ask to be dependent on me, but they are dependent on me.

So, me has to come a little bit later on. And do you find time to relax and chill and switch off? I try to. My, my idea of relax and chill is when we're not out with my mates or like, yeah, that's mainly it really. I'll go out with my mates. That's my best time. Yeah. but I don't really have a lot of time for myself because like I said, by the time the day ends up, if I'm doing something, yeah, it's usually I'm training.

The two things that I do for myself is I love going to train. I love being there because then that allows me to completely switch off and no one can call me during that time. And then the other times it's like nights out with my friends and just having that. Yeah. They're the things that I do. I love that.

And last question, Marni, do you have any business tips for anyone who's starting any kind of business right now? that's really interesting because I don't even know if I'm equipped to advise anyone on anything, really. Oh, you are. Oh, I don't know. I, I, I think. First and foremost, I think if you believe in something, that's such a great start, back up your belief with some research and really be careful because, and if you look around, there's, especially now, there's so many things that have been done or great examples.

of somebody who might have done something similar to what you want to do, but has only made a success of it or done it in a really good way. So there's so much out there, there's so many tools out there to learn from people, businesses, and I think it's about applying your mind in a different way. If you're starting something that's really, really new, really talk to people about it.

Everyone around you, friends, family, anyone who listen and get their feedback, you know, is really important because sometimes they, they might think of something that you haven't thought of because when you are passionate about something, you never see any negatives to it. You can't see the things that could be challenges.

You can't see the things that could be threats. And those don't exist in your mind because you're so focused on something that you believe in. But if you do believe in it, I think it's always worth a shot, no? Yeah, 100%. I love that so much. Actually, I've got one other question and I think we've already covered this a little bit, but what strategy do you think has had the biggest impact in your business?

The biggest thing that's had to change and evolve and impact wise will be marketing. Just because of where we started and where we're at now. Yeah, that's something we continually, it's every business now though, but ours especially is fashion. So it's based around visuals. So, and I come from a marketing events background, which is great.

It's fantastic. But don't forget everything that's around now, the things that are evolving and changes are all new. They're not, you know, like. If you think about ChatGPT and all these other things that are there, I mean, these are going to, these are game changers. Yeah. These are absolute game changers.

Yeah. And I think 10 years from now, I'll be looking at a very different space to what I am now. Just like if I looked back 10 years. I know, it constantly evolves. And so I think, The, the, the digital marketing strategy is the most fundamentally important for us. But then if you look at it now, you almost don't need a strategy.

You go in there and if you're a creative, you'd create a hundred percent. And that's pretty much what I would say for me, would be the major things. I love that so much. Marni, it has been an absolute pleasure. Time has gone so quickly. Aw, thanks. And you've just been, seriously, honestly, so amazing. And I know the audience and the listeners are gonna find this conversation so valuable.

So where can everyone find you? Oh, so, it, the Insta handles that is BB LDN. my label is Marni Corker Choice MKC and I have a personal Instagram page. I don't really post much on because I don't want to be annoying. Don't have time. Ah, thank you so much Marni. It's been brilliant having you. Thank you so much.

Thank you.