23# Turning Extreme Pain Into Power: Finding Resilience Through Cancer, Surrogacy & Sacred Motherhood with Kreena Dhiman
In this powerful and soul-stirring episode, I’m joined by the incredible Kreena Dhiman to share a journey that will stay with you long after you listen.
From a breast cancer diagnosis at just 33, to navigating heart failure, fertility struggles, and the emotional weight of cultural expectations, Kreena’s story is a masterclass in resilience, surrender, and transformation.
She opens up about the raw, unfiltered reality of walking through illness, heartbreak, and the uncertainty of motherhood — and how she chose to meet it all with deep vulnerability, spirituality, and self-leadership.
We dive into the silent pressures women carry — especially within South Asian communities — and the courage it takes to walk an unconventional path.
✨ Kreena shares how she turned her deepest pain into purpose
✨ How surrogacy became her sacred path to motherhood
✨ And why true power comes from acceptance, not perfection
This is more than a conversation about survival.
It’s about reclaiming your story, finding peace in the unknown, and learning to rise — even when life breaks you open.
If you’re navigating grief, loss, identity shifts, or simply looking for hope, this episode will remind you:
Your pain can become your power.
And your story can become someone else’s light.
Tune in — this one is truly special.
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Resources and Links:
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Find out about one-to-one mentorship
Transcript
And courage is just incredible. Mm-hmm. Especially you are someone who has, you know, survived, cancer also, you know, the journey that you've been on in terms of fertility and surrogacy. Mm-hmm. And I think that, you know, you've been just so brave, so courageous, and so resilient. Mm-hmm. And I think this is exactly what the listeners need because I feel like a lot of people, I dunno what it is, whether we are like in a spiritual time.
Mm-hmm. a lot of things. Are, you know, falling away. And it feels like the world is a crazy place right now. Yeah. So many people navigating so many different things. We are living in a, a crazy world. So I'm just so excited to have this conversation with you. Oh, thank you for having me. Thank you. So before we dive in, just let
[:So I'm Queena. I am first and foremost a keynote speaker. I'm an influencer, an ambassador, advocate, author, and I guess most importantly a mother. Mm-hmm. I started this journey sort of, I guess really informally, 11 to 12 years ago of sharing a story of resilience and bravery and what it was to go through adversity.
and you know, I guess the most recent very scary thing I've done is hang up my hat to a conventional corporate job as an accountant and step fully into my passion projects as my purpose. And, you know, to do that has again. Forced me to be courageous in my decision making. Yeah. to find, you know, what really drives me through life.
[:Yeah. So talk us through that journey and what did that look like?
[:Initial symptom. and so I left it and I joked about it and I said to my husband, you know, I've worn some dodgy clothes. What was, what's going on? And it was only till, it was about two weeks after this nip in version that he said to me, you really should see a doctor. That's probably not normal. and all of this.
Came sort of roll rolled on in the back with the backdrop of my own maternal grandmother. My bar having had breast cancer twice. Oh wow. but it's that thing typically of South Asian families that no one discussed her diagnosis. And she was obviously two generations above me came from that very closed type of, Existence where she didn't wanna share her vulnerability, she just wanted to get on with it. And so we didn't learn from that diagnosis. And I always say that if we had, I probably would've been diagnosed earlier because I would've known what I was looking for. I. That's kind of what drove me to share my story so publicly because I felt that if I let people know that this can happen at a young age, maybe I can save someone from a very late prognosis because they'll know what to look for.
They'll know that this disease does occur in young women, and it could just save someone's life. Yeah, and that was like my real turning point. Initially, I didn't tell anyone that I'd been diagnosed. I was hiding away. I didn't tell my closest friends, and I remember the oncologist sort of when he said to me, you're gonna have chemotherapy, I just cried because I knew it would become an outward battle and I knew I'd lose my hair and I knew that there'd be so many more implications to the disease.
In my head, I thought if we just cut the breast off, we're done. But it was so much more complex than that, and I think that again goes towards this conversation that we never have in our community about cancer and what it really is to be diagnosed with that disease. It's not just a common cold that we get over and then we go back to our ordinary lives, which I assumed it would be.
It's changed my life forever. Some, you know, in some ways beautifully and wonderfully, but in some ways it, it literally tore me apart and, you know, tore apart everything that I knew about myself. I always say that I think as South Asian women we're quite often a series of tick boxes, someone else's tick boxes.
We're marriageable, we've got long hair, we've got fertility, we've got good looks, we've got a nice car, we've got a good job, you know, good university education, and we're just society series of tick boxes. And I was definitely that. I was at the top of my career. I was, you know, looking to get married. I drove a nice car, bought a nice house, and everything was going really well for me.
And then the diagnosis came. And I didn't realize it at the time, but it was. The first step in my journey back to myself because what it did was shatter every tick box I'd ever lived to exist for. And it took away all of my conformity and all I could do at that point was go back inwards. And it's that return to love journey really of who am I?
Why do I exist on this planet, and what do I, what do I want my legacy to be?
[:Mm-hmm. We do have so much shame and stigma around almost everything actually. Anything.
[: [:A good time because I think more and more people are openly sharing. Mm. But I think, you know, even when you had that,
[:And I remember sort of, I very early on got asked to join a media campaign. Sharing my journey with breast cancer, and initially I was like, no way am I gonna do that. No way do I want a poster for me with my bald head out there. No way do I want anyone to see me in this vulnerable state. I was so ashamed and it was only through my own sort of self.
ampaign for a charity back in:Yeah. Once I realized that people wanted to hear the story, yes. Some people judged and you know, the most painful thing were the people who. Called me up when I was in my most vulnerable state and asked for a tea or a coffee, and they came. Of course, they came, but then they left and never came back. Once they'd taken what they wanted, you know, the, the gossip that they wanted.
And so what the disease did was it made me really realize who my core group are, who my core friends are. And who to let go of. Mm-hmm. You. But, but that is a part of life and that's sometimes what our society can be like. It can be very judgmental, very gossipy. And I was definitely, I have been on numerous occasions, the subject of someone else's gossip, but I always think that that's fine.
'cause that's their problem, not mine. Yeah. You know, for what matters to me is whose life can I shape change or influence positively. Through having gone through my own adversity and I genuinely believe that's the purpose in my pain is to, to make it better for someone else because there wasn't anyone to hold my hand in that way in our community.
And so if I can be that girl who holds the ladder for the next Indian girl behind me, then, then that's what is here for. I.
[:Oh, fine. It's because it's, I think, I think there's just so much stigma and, How did you, how did you find like the courage in those moments? Because you were so young. Yeah, and I think, I'm not saying it's different for older people, but when you do get diagnosed with cancer, you are a little bit older, I think, when you are so young and you are almost at your prime, right?
Mm-hmm. Like in three, you are at your prime. Yeah. Yeah. How did you. I think obviously there were two paths. Either hide in fear Yeah. Or in shame. Yeah. Or really fully embrace this journey. Yeah. Yeah. And I think a lot of people do hide in fear. Yeah. You know how, what was that kind of mindset switch that you thought, no, I'm going to be brave, I'm going to be courageous.
Mm-hmm. And I'm going to just. Do this my own way. Yeah. Like what
[: [: [:And I think it's really important to say it's not an overnight job, you know? Mm-hmm. For a very long time, I didn't want to share, and for a very long time when I shared, I felt uncomfortable and I felt really sad. And acceptance is the foundation of. Anything that we move through in life, like, you know, there's that, formula.
What is it? It's something like pain times resistance equals suffering. Mm-hmm. But pain times acceptance equals peace. And so my journey really just became one of acceptance and. That's what I talk about through everything I do now is, you know, under the art of being brave is you have to accept the circumstance.
'cause the more you resist it and the more you go against it, the harder you make it for yourself, not for anyone else, because you are living that journey. So I guess I had a choice to keep it a secret, and I could have in probably in some way kept it a secret and gone through life and. Found another path, but it wasn't my truth, like I always felt uncomfortable.
Hiding something or lying about something. Mm-hmm. So it's that gut feel. There's so much power in our gut, you know, we know what we want, but then our conditioning stops us, or fear stops us. And I guess our job is to find the courage and the love and the resilience to, to smooth beyond that fear. 'cause quite often it's societal and I think I was, I wouldn't say fortunate, but.
A lot of people say, you are so brave, and how did you get through it? But my reality was that I never was fully accepted. So, you know, I was once, once at retreat and someone said, what was your most life defining moment if your whole, whole life? And I just wrote in my journal the day I was born. Mm-hmm.
And people think that's a really odd thing to write, but the reality was I was a second born girl in an Indian house where they're expecting a sun. So actually from the minute I was born, there was something I was always. Fighting against, or there was a resilience that I had to find. You know, I felt, I feel like my resilience was exercised from a very young age.
I came from a quite dysfunctional family. My parents had an unhappy marriage, you know, my mom had chronic health issues. My dad had, addiction to alcohol and, you know, mental health issues. So I think what made me get through it was that I had been flexing my resilience from a young age, a very young age, you know?
And so that, as much as I really hated that as a child, I was like, why can't I have a simple life? Why can't I have parents that are like, you know, Joe blogs around the corner? What that really difficult childhood did was give me the tools and armory I needed in my adulthood to overcome adversity after adversity after adversity.
I. and so I just feel like I've been really well equipped from a young age to, to lean into. Finding my courage and my bravery and my resilience and using it to overcome all of these obstacles that come my way. 'cause it didn't just end with breast cancer, it kept going on and on.
[: [: [:Mm-hmm. 'cause I think we, you know, getting a little bit spiritual and woo woo here. Yeah, I do think we're all given spiritual assignments in life. Absolutely agree. And no one, you know, varying degrees. I think everyone has, but I think that. You can either take that pain and turn it into something beautiful and lead the way forward and be a trailblazer, or you just sit with that pain and it becomes suffering for the rest.
Yeah. Rest of your life. It suffocates
[:Accept it fully for yourself. That message of it. It will be okay. It'll be different, but it will be okay. You'll never overcome it. You know, and I, I know I've say quite often, like my favorite quote is, hold on, pain ends and it spells out hope because every time I've been in a position where I've felt that all I've got around me is darkness, there's always a flicker of hope.
And I know a lot of people in the cancer community.I've, you know, been through severe heart failure, or I've seen like total end of life myself, and I know for sure that hope doesn't ever fade. And some people will say to me, but if that person's got stage four diagnosis and they're gonna die, what hope have they got?
And all it does is it shifts. So I know from conversations with friends I've had and now lost. Yes, at one point they're hoping for longer on this earth. At one point they're hoping for a miracle drug. When that doesn't come, the hope shifts to, I'm now accepting that my life is gonna end soon, but I hope for a peaceful transition.
[: [:That shift is yours. It's personal to your time on this earth, and acceptance of that is super important. You know, because once you accept your circumstance, you can really thrive beyond it.
[:It's like that kind of puff perfect life. Yeah. And I think that. It's been amplified by social media because we're constantly seeing people's perfect life. Yeah. And then we question our own darkness or our own challenges and why is this happening? But actually, I think also what is really important is like.
You know, define what purpose and peace looks like to you. Mm. Because it's so different for everyone. Yeah. I used to think in my thirties, like early thirties, late twenties, when I get X, Y, and Z, that I'll be happy when I hit this milestone. Yeah, I'll be happy when I have this. I'll be happy. But actually, I was talk, speaking to my friend at the weekend and.
We both like, we just want peace.
[:You know, this thing that came my way was really disrupting my peace. I was like walking around the house with a knot in my stomach. You know, when an email came in, I was really anxious and I could, I was watching myself. I was like, right. Kreena as much as you might wanna do this piece of work or that piece of work, look at what it's costing you.
It's costing you your peace. 'cause you are constantly on edge. And I think that once we know what peace looks like for us. Mm. And once you find it, I protect it ferociously. and that. With that has come this like. Desire to, to, to shed finance for a little while to look at what work looks like in a totally uncon way.
Right? What you and I are doing here is not what normal people or society thinks normal people should be doing for work or, you know, they're, they're just like, oh, what are you doing? Like. You're gonna go and talk to someone. Yeah, I'm, because actually that really brings me joy and it'll monetize in its own time.
You know, like I think we put so much pressure on having a job, having a title, having a salary, and none of that brings us peace. All it does is bring us money, which quite often causes more issue. You know, it can do so. The most important thing is to protect your peace and find your peace, and, and I, I def definitely feel like I finally found that.
And, and it took a great lot of adversity coming my way for me to really give myself permission to do what really matters to me.
[:And I think sometimes it's so hard in our culture and society and social media, you know, to actually. Break it all apart and say, what do you actually want? Mm. Because some, you know, I'm someone who's so ambitious Yeah. And so driven. But in this season of my life this year, you know, I didn't do my big event.
Mm. I was like, this year I'm really craving growing my brand, building my audience. This year's mantra is test and learn, you know? Yeah. With the podcast, different platforms, bringing on kind of different team members. Everything is like test and learn and like, I've literally taken a backseat from, you know, growing my business, so to speak.
Yeah. and it's, it's, it sounds so crazy. 'cause this is something that I've really been battling with. You know, my business has done so well over the last few years. Like this year we don't need to go after like business growth. Yeah. We just don't need to do it. Yeah. You know, financially we are all good, you know.
But it's so uncomfortable. Yes. Standing still. So uncomfortable. So uncomfortable. Uncomfortable. And I find myself having like little. You know, not breakdowns, but like moments of questioning. Yeah, absolutely. It's like, oh, why didn't I do mm-hmm. The event this year, I should have done that. Mm-hmm. That would've brought me X, Y, and Z.
Mm-hmm. Or why didn't I do this big launch in, in March? Or why didn't, you know? Yeah. And it's like I've really had to check myself. Yeah. And been like. Where is this coming from? Yeah. Is this coming from like higher, highest version of Sean? Yes. Or is it coming from what society and the programming, because I'm a lot around, a lot of, you know, I've, I've started muting them and I'm following them, but around a lot of business coaches where it's like growth, growth, growth, yeah.
Year on year growth, like. Numbers, goals. Yeah. And I'm like, I don't wanna do that this year. Yeah. I wanna experiment. I wanna like just, just experiment in my business. And I think we have to get really clear on what do we actually want without the filters of like society Yeah. And conditional programming.
And that's when we can also come back to peace.
[: [: [: [: [:You know, I work, but I work in a very unconventional, different way and it works around my children. So yeah, I'm with my, one of my kids need me, I'm there, but that doesn't mean I'm not working when they're at school or at nursery. You know, like it just means it looks very different, but. A part of me used to get really triggered about that because I think I had a real, I felt really like there was a gravitas to saying, I'm an accountant.
You know, people would be, oh, right, she's an, she's Anant accountant. You know, like automatically you get a status in society. And so when that dropped away, I could see people sort of second guessing, what is she doing with her life? Like, you know, is she just being a mom now? And it, I felt super uncomfortable letting the title go, but I realized that was my own attachment, you know, that.
That was something I had to work through as well. Why was I so attached to that job title? Why was that fulfilling me? Because actually the job itself didn't fulfill me. You know? And so once we give ourself that permission to do something differently, of course it's uncomfortable that, but that in itself is stepping into your own courage and your bravery, because to do stuff that's uncomfortable is the bravest thing you can do.
Conforming and norming is probably one of the most boring things you can do. Easiest, you know, an easiest, yeah. And it's the easiest thing to do. So. I do it all the time. What you are doing? I'm like, Carina, what are you doing? Like someone's gonna say, where's the next paycheck? Someone's gonna say this. And I'm like, but this is where I wanna be right now in my life.
You know? And it's just like whatever to everyone else. Yeah. And I think I often turn around and people quite, they'll be like, when are you gonna go back to corporate? When are you gonna do then? And I'll be like. I nearly died twice. You know, you can't tell me what to do. And it's annoying that it took that for me to now give myself this permission.
And I think that's what I wanna tell people, is don't wait, don't wait for life to show you how short it is before you decide to live it, because then it's almost too late. You know, there's, there's a lot of stuff I can't do because my health restricts me, or you know, there's just stuff that I have to manage.
And I wish that as like a 30 something, a 3-year-old pre-diagnosis. I had a little bit more courage to, to do the things that society told me not to do.
[: [: [:No. No. And I think it's just so important, I think, especially with women as a whole. Are so fearful, aren't they? Yeah. Fear really drives us, and I think especially in the Asian community as well, because we've always been taught to like not take up too much space, be a certain way, be obedient, you know, have all these masks.
I think a lot of us, you know, that's something that I really had to let go of is the fear of other people. Mm. And I think you've just, like you said, you nearly died twice. Mm-hmm. And you know, I wish more people knew that like, people just don't know. You just don't know what's around the corner either. No.
You know, it's so important. Yeah. And can you just talk to us a little bit, Corina about, 'cause you said you nearly died, the heart failure. Yeah. Can you just talk a little bit around that and what happened?
[:And this, I caveat this with, this is not to say you do not take chemotherapy. Yes. When you have a cancer diagnosis. This is to say, be aware of the effects of that treatment. So I didn't know that there was. you know, a risk to my heart. And what happened was very rare. but three years after my diagnosis, we were on holiday celebrating like life Beyond Cancer in Vancouver.
Oh wow. And I got rushed to any, I couldn't breathe. They couldn't diagnose me. They sort of, you know, were doing everything to keep me alive. And eventually, after a sort of a long, long series of tests, a cardiology team put a scanner on my heart and they just said she's in acute heart failure. So what had happened was the chemotherapy had damaged my heart for the three years.
Since my treatment and I arrived at a and e with a heart function of 6% and very close to losing life. And so the team were like, you need to call her family over. She won't survive this. it's, we don't see people coming back from such severe heart failure, but I did, you know, and we talk about so much about spirituality, but in that moment, like it was something outta a TV show when I got diagnosed, like these red lights went on.
I was chucked into the e emergency from the emergency room to intensive care. And it was just me and my husband. And I remember catching his eye at one point thinking this can't be the end. This cannot be the end. We've come to celebrate the start of life and how will we now, in this scenario where we'd be told, being told life will end in 24 hours.
so it was a really difficult time. But when I was in intensive care, all I can describe this as is an awakening like the doctors kept saying to me. Your condition is severe, the prognosis is poor. And in my head there was a voice, like an energetic voice, and it says, this is not where it ends. This is not where it ends.
Queen. Let them say what they wanna say, you will survive. And I don't know whether that's, you know, God or Spirit or. So who it was, but it was loud and clear. And so I kind of just let them carry on doing everything they had to do. And of course, I was afraid, I was very afraid for my future, but I also had this gut feel that I was gonna be all right.
Okay. Yeah. And so we were in Vancouver. I was in intensive care for about two weeks, just over two weeks in hospital for another three or four after that. Then left hospital in a wheelchair. Was held in Vancouver for almost two months 'cause I wasn't fit to fly home. and eventually got back to the uk, but with a heart function of 11% and, you know, using a wheelchair to get around.
and I was 36, 37 at the time. and in many ways that diagnosis was even harder than the cancer diagnosis because with cancer I felt I had time and I could get through it. I'd seen survival stories with heart failure. I had not seen it. I had no idea what it was, and to this day, there's no one, and my own cardiologist is like, I don't have a case study like yours.
No one in that situation gets back to where you're back to. It's incredible. But I, I talk about sort of the soul and the purpose of life and stuff, and like, I genuinely believe that was part of my journey, you know? And I think I'm always asked, how do you keep going? How do you, how do you keep on when these awful things happen to you?
And I'm like, I totally surrender. Like to the fact that my life has been prescripted and, you know, and my soul chose this life. And so. It comes back to that thing of resistance versus acceptance. Yes. All of these severe things, grave things have happened, but the minute I accepted it, I found a future beyond it.
You know? I. When I came back from heart failure, I was like, I said to my cardiologist, I wanna be, I wanna be fit. By the time I'm 40, I'm not gonna be in a wheelchair. And he was like, okay, we'll work towards it. We'll work towards it. When I was 40, I tracked the Himalayas for my 40th birthday. Wow.you know, I.
Always said I wanted children. And he said to me, it's not possible. Your heart's too weak. It's, you can't carry a pregnancy. My oncologist was like, you cannot carry a pregnancy. The risk of your cancer recurrence is too high. I'm like, I'll find a way. I'll find a way. And, and so it means giving up like what you thought it would look like, but then opening yourself up to something totally different, but equally as magical.
And you know, when it came to the children, it took a lot of. Sort of reflection counseling to myself and exploration of what motherhood could look like. Yeah.
[:Yeah. And I think in this lifetime that we have to learn the lesson. Absolutely. And I think if we don't learn the lesson, then it's, I always think it's gonna come back in the next lifetime. Yeah. I always think if you're not learning it now, you're gonna learn it in the next one. So you might as well just learn it now.
And I think it's so interesting. I think a lot of people, it's what I said before is it's just that. Preconceived idea of what life should look like. Mm-hmm. And I think people are really rigid, aren't they? Yeah. And surrendering is so difficult, isn't it? Yeah. And I think. In terms of like just fertility, 'cause I know this will be su it's such a hot topic for women right now.
Obviously the fertility rates are not promising for women. you know, a lot of people explore IVF or surrogacy, but again, in our culture, mm what. It's not even in our culture. I think in general there's so much stigma. Yeah. It's like even when you look at the celebrities and surrogacy Yeah. They almost get shamed for it.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. You know, people like Priyanka Chopra. Yeah. Even I think, Kim Kardashian, which I think some people obviously have their reasons, but there's like a lot of like shame. Mm. Like when you. By the point you reached, you know, you the, the mother Hadera. Mm. Had that kind of shame dissolved or was there like more to kind of uncover that?
[:Mm-hmm.the process being in the uk, when you become a parent through, when you become a parent through surrogacy, the person who birthed the child is the legal birth mother. And then you have to go through the family courts to have a new birth certificate issued and parental orders and parental rights changed over.
So for my children, I was never their mother in legal form, when they were born. And so that brings with it fear of what if someone keeps a ba, you know, and that's scaremongering, that's sort of media, saying that, you know. Surrogates keep babies. I know in my heart of hearts that neither of my surrogates wanted to do that because they've come to surrogacy because they want to create a family.
They don't wanna extend their own family. There are much easier ways of extending your own family than getting pregnant with someone else's child. Yeah. Um, so I knew in my heart of hearts that, that, that that wasn't a valid fear, but it didn't stop the doubt creeping in. And then there was this societal fear that what if people.
Judge me for not being pregnant. What if also I don't connect with my husband in the same way? 'cause we haven't grown the child together in our home in the way that a pregnant woman would. What if, my children don't recognize me as their mom? And what will people say? You know, will people accept to these children or will there be some judgment and stigma around it?
But the one thing I always did in every conversation I had when it came to motherhood was ask myself a question. And that was, what do you want Corina? Nine months of pregnancy or a lifetime of motherhood? And then you have to choose. Mm-hmm. If you wanted nine months of pregnancy, it potentially comes at the risk of your own life.
If you're in a lifetime of motherhood, you surrender and hand it over to someone else. And. You know, sod everything that everyone else says around it. So again, it wasn't an overnight decision. You know, it took a long time. And even for my husband, I was on board a lot earlier 'cause all of this was happening to me and my body.
And I knew I had to explore these parts, but he had a lot more resistance. It's like, I don't think I can see it happening. I don't think that's gonna work for us. And I was like, it's only option. Mm. So we're gonna make it work. And it took a lot of sort of, I guess me. Doing the work myself, showing him the stories of hope.
And again, they were never brown girls, you
[: [: [: [: [: [: [: [:Mm. But so many people are so afraid of doing it. And again, that's why I share it because. I have a podcast called The Intended Parent. If anyone is in a situation where they're looking at surrogacy and it tells you everything you need to know about it. but I wanna be that person who gives someone else hope and inspiration to find motherhood when every other door is closed.
[: [: and delivering my daughter in:and then after her, we really wanted more children, but we didn't have any embryos left. And so I was like, right, what are we gonna do now? You know, how are we gonna have these children? And so I like took that step to get an egg donor. And I think so many of us are like, oh, shall I freeze my eggs just in case I don't find a partner?
And yeah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Or, what shall I do? Shall I create embryo? Shall I do all these things? And like I was like, I chose to have a donor because that was the most easiest route for us to have another child. And now my children are here, they're three of them. They're triplets, you know, they're born through surrogacy.
I think the most important thing is that I don't love them for their genetics. And so for everyone who thinks they're beating themselves up about not harvesting their eggs on time, or not finding that perfect person, there's still another path. Mm. You know, you don't have to be biologically related to your children to love them endlessly and unconditionally.
And I have both in my home, I have a genetic child and three. Non-genetic child and I do not love them differently. And I think that's really important for our culture because we put so much emphasis on like blood is blood, you know, that's what blood's thicker than water. Yeah. Blood's thicker than water, blah, blah.
And I'm like, that is bs. It really is because love is love and that's all that matters.So, yeah, I've kinda lost my train of thought, but I just think, you know, when it comes to challenging the status quo, infertility and looking at those alternate paths when it comes to parenthood, if, if doors are closing around you, then there are, there are options, you know, and that's why I share my children on my social channels.
'cause I'm like, they bring me my life's greatest joy. But that joy only came. After deep adversity, loss and grief. Mm-hmm. And in all of this, none of this stuff is overnight processes. Like, you know, when I did lose the chance to have more biological children, I had a massive like journey with grief and loss and sadness because it was a door that closed.
Right. But when one door closes, another opens. And so our job is to give ourselves time. To look at the situation, to accept that situation, to surrender to that situation, and then do the work to move on from it.
[: [: [:Yeah. And I think we have to, as a society, especially in the uk, we rush through things. Mm-hmm. Let's just rush through our grief. Yeah. Let's just rush through this big thing. It's, I think that one of the reasons that your cancer story touched me so much is because we had two deaths at the end of last year, and unfortunately we had a close family member that died of cancer and it's.
I really took my time. Mm. You know, it, it is just expected of us. Like, oh, just bounce back.
[: [:Yeah. The funeral was on a Tuesday that our call was on a Friday. I'm like, yeah, yeah, I'm gonna be fine. But I think on the day I was just like in tears to her and Vox and she completely understood because she's been through her own grief journey and she was like, it's absolutely fine if we to reschedule next week.
Yeah. Like it's not a problem. And I think I just had to again. Again, a lesson I was given last year is it's okay to move things around. It's okay to put your own needs first. Yeah. It's okay to not wonder what people are judging you for, you know, for canceling a call. Those things don't matter. No, and I think it's so important, what you said about that is not overnight.
It took time. Yeah. And I think that's so important and women should give themselves that time to process. Everything. So if someone's in the messy middle, Corina, 'cause I think like thirties and forties are that, you know, that era that we all have where we have maybe our own health challenges. Yeah. Par you know, parents have health challenges, you know, fertility.
All of these things that come to the surface that we never even thought about in our, in our twenties. Yeah. how can they be courageous and how can they be resilient in that time, do you think? Allow
[:And once you do that and you allow that sort of all of the shedding to happen, then you found the foundation from which you can rise and lift. But it. It doesn't have to be perfect. You know, you don't have to conform. And when adversity comes lean into it. And I think my biggest lesson to anyone is like, I.
Where resistance lives. Suffering lives. So acceptance will be your best friend when you're going through difficult times. And it doesn't mean it's gonna be easy. I'm not saying that in any way, shape, or form, but accepting your circumstance is what allows you to thrive beyond it. And so find the stories of hope.
You know, find the communities. I don't think I could have done anything I've got through without my cancer community, my fertility community, my surrogacy community, and my closest friends, you know, because I. We cannot do this life alone. We have to find our allies and our champions and lean into them, show our vulnerabilities to them.
and like I said, just allow for that, that, that unfolding and give it your, give it time. You know, none of this is an overnight job and it actually, the acceptance that it will continue to cause pain is really important because I am still. Often triggered by pregnancy announcements, by pregnant women, by people who complain about pregnancy.
Like it still really upsets me because I had it all taken away from me, but I accept that it, it upsets me. So, you know, if I know there's gonna be a big sort of pregnancy event or something, and I wanna be there, I'll go for a short amount of time and then I'll remove myself from, it comes back to creating those boundaries that preserve your peace.
So, you know. Look at your scenario, find out where the pain and hurt is, accept that, and then find the way to move beyond it, but do it in a sort of boundaried way so that you're not constantly triggered by what's going on in society. Because there will always be someone who triggers you, who's got the perfect setup for me, you know, in their family who's got the perfect home in your eyes?
They probably haven't. In reality, they've got something that you want. And the biggest job is to find. Joy, peace and comfort in what you have, not to compare yourself to everyone on the outside. Mm-hmm. Because I think once you're that rooted in yourself and your own being, then that's where joy and Peace li like grows from, right?
[:Mm-hmm. Or that person's more intelligent, more articulate, but actually they're, they're just probably, you know, plagued with self-doubt or they're looking at other people. There's always gonna be someone Yeah. Who from the outside in looks more successful, looks more put together. Yeah. Looks more, you know, speaks more articulately.
But actually what you have to root yourself in is like. What you are good at. Yeah. What are your strengths? What are you grateful for? Now? I was writing out my bio the other day 'cause I'm just in a bit of a rebrand. And, you know, just, just read, you know, reading out the things that I've done in recent years and I thought, oh my God, if I came across this bi I'd be so embarra.
Yeah. Like, I was like, I'm so impressed. But we almost forget, you know, we're all guilty. Forget
[:Why do we do this to ourselves? But I guess that's part of this conversation, isn't it? Like accepting that we will do that? Yes. 'cause we're human, right? Yes. And as much comparison is the thief of joy. We know that. Right? But it doesn't stop us doing it. That's, that's part of who we are quite, you know, I do it all the time.
I'm doubting myself and I don't. I now don't tell myself off for doubting myself. I'm like, okay, cool. What is it that's, what is it that's underneath that that's causing that self-doubt and self-sabotage? Let's look at it. Yeah. And let's, let's deal with that because it is finding these, this sort of courage and, you know, ability to sit in the uncomfortable silence.
That is I think, one of life's biggest lessons. 'cause that's where we grow. So if. If it makes you feel a bit ick, which a lot of things make me think, oh my God, ENA, what are you doing? It's probably helping you grow towards, you know, the person you choose to become. Yeah. But it doesn't mean it's easy in any way.
[: [:Yeah, because they, you have to have that, that you have to have that slight fear. To know where you wanna grow, right? If, if everything felt comfortable, then you'd never push yourself or your boundaries. So you have to have that sort of element of self-doubt to think no, but I know I can, to then create self-belief.
Yes, and
[:Yeah. And I'm just like, no, this is where we're growing.
[: [:I feel like that could be so easy. Part two, oh my God. Say this to all of my guests, especially for this podcast, but you've obviously had an incredible message. You know, the bravery, the courageousness, the resilience, and you've been able to amplify that and really get that out into the media. You know, you.
Been on, I think on loose women. You know, in terms of like the, the BB, C, you've connected with them. You are part of some incredible campaigns like Estee Lauder for example. How can you, how can people who've got a very, very mission led, message kind of utilize like the media? Is it just a case of keep on sharing your story or is it a case of networking?
Like what does that look like for
[:You know, I, I remember my husband would always say, oh, you're always on your phone. You're always on this group and that group. And I'm like, but these are my tribe. You know? And actually even just us meeting, it's because we have a network of these amazing South Asian women, you know? And so. It's finding the people who will champion you and who will help amplify your message, and who will be your biggest cheerleaders.
And you never know which door's open, you know, as a result of connection network, and then putting yourself out there, you know? Mm. And, and with putting yourself out there comes that fear of criticism and critique, and it's just being so authentically aligned to your message that that doesn't shake you or it doesn't stop you.
it definitely still scares me. You know, every time I put a piece of content out or last week, I like launched my website and I was happy to put it on LinkedIn, but I wasn't happy to put it on Instagram 'cause I was like, oh, they don't wanna see it. And I'm like, why are you doing this to yourself? Like, you know, people are here.
If people wanna watch you and follow you, they'll find you, right? And if they don't like what you're saying, they can just unfollow you. It's not your problem. So I think like network community connection and being authentically you. That's what really helps open doors, and I think that's also what helps you become a really good leader in any space if you know the workplace or in the family or whatever, when you have those, characteristics of empathy and vulnerability.
And yeah, knowing that things aren't always perfect. That just makes you such a, it just, I'd love it. You know, I've always would love a manager like that, or a leader like that, or a business partner like that because then they see that life is never plain sailing. There's always gonna be bumps in the road, and it's how we navigate them that matters.
I. And how we bounce back from that. Yeah. That's
[:The ba, the bounce back and the comeback rate is so important, but taking your time. Mm. That's so important, I think. Yeah. So thank you so much for sharing that. Corina, you. So where can everyone
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